מענדעלע

Was it on this discussion group that we were debating the origins of the phrase "Dona, Dona"? I believe some readers posited a Yiddish or other Eastern European source. Accordingly, I was rather surprised to find the following lines in a poem appended to the memoirs of Frederick Douglass:

Come, saints and sinners, hear me tell How pious priests whip Jack and Nell, And women buy and children sell, And preach all sinners down to hell, And sing of heavenly union.

They'll bleat and baa, dona like goats, Gorge down black sheep, and strain at motes, Array their backs in fine black coats, Then seize their negroes by their throats, And choke, for heavenly union. . . .

It is interesting that the editor of The Norton Anthology World Masterpieces adds the following footnote after the word "Dona": "Believed to be a printer's error in the original edition for "go on" or "go n-a-a-ah."

Any comments?

Joyce Rappaport

I suspect that the word in question (Fritshunes) is actually "pritshines," from the Russian word "prichi'na" 'reason,'

As to the word "zhid," it is found in all the Slavic languages and probably entered Slavic from Romance, perhaps via Slovenian. Strangely enough, it is the standard word for "Jew" in non-Eastern Orthodox countries and has become derogatory only in the Orthodox countries where it is replaced by the word originally meaning "Hebrew." (So zhid is the standard word for Jew among Croatians, but among Serbs the term Jevrej is used.) This phenomenon has even affected non-Slavic languages: the Georgian word for Jew 'Uria' has become derogatory and has been replaced by 'Ebraeli' = 'Hebrew.' I suspect that the change in the meaning of 'zhid' is relatively recent and probably spread from Russian to the other Orthodox Slavs.

Howie Aronson

It is an yiddishized form of Russian word _prichiny_ meaning 'reasons' (common usage among Yiddish speakers in Soviet Union).

The fragment from this letter is quite tragic (how many families were not only prevented from reunion - the mere correspondence was virtually banned, and those who did write often paid a high price of being labeled as "communicating with foreigners" with many unpleasant consequences. However, I couldn't refrain from posting a joke, that used to be very popular in sixties and seventies:

Rabinovich is summoned to KGB. Officer asks:

-Comrade Rabinovich, you have a brother in the US, don't you?

-(quietly) Ye-es...

-Than why you did not write to him for twenty years?

-???

-No, no, comrade Rabinovich, times have changed! Nothing to be afraid or ashamed of. Now you can write freely to your brother about how you enjoy this wonderful life in our socialist motherland. Here is the paper, why don't you start right away.

Rabinovich takes a pen:

"Main taier brider!

Plitsem ikh hob gefinen di tsait un der plats tsu shraybn dir a briv..."

Iosif Vaisman

The word that Shleyme Axelrod is looking for is from the Russian "prichina" = reason.

Dan Slobin

Shleyme Axelrod's "fritshunes," given the graphic ambiguities that he reported, is presumably "pritshines" (from Russian _prichiny_) 'reasons'.

Bob Rothstein

The form intended is pritshines `reasons'.

Moyshe Taube

Reb Noyekh lists the term _shrage_ as meaning 'full house', but it was apparently used to refer to a hand containing a mixture of suits, i.e., _SHeln_ 'diamonds', _Royt_ 'hearts', _Grin_ 'spades', _Aykhl_ 'clubs', whence the punning proverb: "Mit 'Shrage' ruft men oyf, ober a kon ken men nit oysnemen" ("With 'Shrage' [the Hebrew name corresponding to Yiddish _Fayvl_] one is called to the Torah, but one cannot win a kitty.")

He also cites the proverb "Eyn khokhme ve-eyn tevune keneged shlekhte kortn," which has a variant: "...keneged frau fortune." Both parody Proverbs 21, 30, which also gave rise to one of many proverbial putdowns of cantors: "Fun vanen iz gedrungen, az a khazn iz a nar? Fun posek: Eyn khokhme ve-eyn tevune ve-eyn eytse leneged adoshem."

Bob Rothstein

Paul Ritterband: Only a Litvak would associate zhid and Zidlen (not zhidlen). Yiddish zidlen 'to curse' is of German origin; cf MHG sudelen 'beschmutzen' (although you'd think there'd be a German variant with u-umlaut).

For Yiddish "yeke", cf. German "Geck", Berlin dialect "Yeck" (I would think, no?) 'dandy, fop, dude' etc. Far better than all the other pseudo-etymologies offered by philologos, et al.

Living speakers of Western Yiddish from Alsace, Holland, Western Hungary, recorded in the early 60's can be heard on the tapes of the Yiddish Atlas in New York; Astrid Starck in Alsace surely has more recent one. Also, the Swiss Phonogrammarchiv recording prepared by Guggernheim_Gruenberg.

There is still a preterite of a single verb (vor 'was') in West Transcarpathian Yiddish.

Mikhl Herzog.

In response to Yude Rozof's message about the phrase that includes "kieke" which was used in Berlin.

The Berlin Gentile dialect has heavy low German influences, which, incidentally make it more similar to Dutch than to Hochdeutsch. In the Hanseatic territories (where my own ancestors are from) Plattdeutsch was used to the exclusion of the standard, but finally yielded to the standard, except for the working class and the peasants, who still use it today. Anyway, to come to the point. Tallin, Estonia was the farthest outpost in German-speaking territories, and there is a large building that carries the logo "Kiek in de keuk" (I can't remember the spelling of the words after kiek). Kiek is and always has been a Low German equivalent to "Kucken". The "i" sound was so strong that it yielded in Dutch to "kijk", which is procounced kaeik, much as min and din yielded mein and dein. The quoted phrase means "Gib a kuk in kikh" by the way.

Just thought I'd put in my two bits. One P.S.: I read that there was never a "Juedisch-Plattdeutsch". That same article (wish my memory were better) said that in Amsterdam ("Low German" country) you heard Low German on one side of a certain bridge and on the other side High German. Then the author explains that what was meant was that Jews spoke Yiddish, which has few if any connections with Low German, and was perceived as "Highland" speech as opposed to "Nether-Land" speech; the Jews lived on one side of the bridge and the Gentiles the other.

Rick Gildemeister

10)---------------------------------------------------Date: Mon May 2 09:13:12 1994 From: elmaestro@aol.com Subject: Re: Galicia/Gaelic

As you may know, there is a province of Spain called Galicia, which is not populated by Galizianers necessarily. Also, ancient France was Gallia, and the language of Ireland and Scotland is Gaelic. Well, this all points to the Celtic relationship between all those areas. What I'd like to know is, was there ever a time when the Celts and the Jews lived in Galicia (Poland) at the same time? Is there any reference in the Yiddish literature of Galicia to the ancient Celtic settlers who gave the area its name? Has anyone written about this?

Thanks

Hugo Kottler